With Baron's musical adaption of Frankenstein already showing off-broadway and Young Frankenstein on broadway, does anyone think Wildhorn's version will stand much of a chance?

The off-Broadway Frankenstein is actually going to close tomorrow. See Playbill Online. It has seemed to me that there is good buzz around this. Maybe it suffered from running at the same time as Young Frankenstein... I don't know (they don't say why they decided to close).

Broadway has certainly shifted toward more upbeat shows in recent years (Spamalot, Hairspray, The Producers)... so if a theatergoer is choosing between "a dark, serious Frankenstein" (as Wildhorn's or Baron's) and "a fun, light-hearted one" (Brooks')... a lot of people might choose the latter. These are probably important factors to consider.

I also think the concept that Wildhorn, Boyd and Murphy are working on for this is very intriguing. I didn't know much about Mary Shelley before (nor Percy Shelley nor Lord Byron), but I recently read "The Monsters: Mary Shelley & The Curse of Frankenstein." It's a biography of Mary that spends a fair amount of time talking about her parents (both radical writers), as well as Percy, Byron, and the others in the "Diodati Circle" - the group of writers holed up together on the shore of Lake Geneva that dark and stormy summer when the idea for Frankenstein and his monster was born. The story of these real people is quite interesting, and I see in them good material for a musical. The book was a good read (authors: Dorothy & Thomas Hoobler. published: Little, Brown & Co 2006).

I'm looking forward to this project, but we'll have to see what happens with it, and when.

P

I agree with the shift to more "light-hearted" shows, and it's pretty unfortunate. Baron's show would've had so much potential in the late 90's in my opinion. The concept album is good, but a little inconsistant. Ivan Rutherford (as Victor Frankenstein) really makes it worthwhile. "The Coming of the Dawn" and "Birth To My Creation" are both amazing songs (even if a bit too reminiscent of Jekyll & Hyde).

The digital instruments also make it feel a little "corny," so I'm looking forward to the new cast album that is supposidly coming out in 2008 (with an actual orchestra hopefully). Especially with Jekyll & Hyde's very own Christiane Noll as the leading woman.

I'm assuming that, besides a possible demo, we won't see much of Wildhorn's Frankenstein for some time-- if ever.

Where's Ashton when you need him

I lost track of the American Musical sometime around "Wicked" and "The Light In The Piazza". It just doesn't interest me these days. I liked "The Producers" and parts of "Hairspray", and I had high hopes for "Dance of the Vampires" and Jim Steinman and Frank Wildhorn, but other than that... "The Little Mermaid" was my favourite movie as a kid but I have no interest in flying over to see the musical, especially after I heard about the changes. I'm not interested in "Young Frankenstein" and I'm not even going to purchase the Cast Recording. I heard a few tracks from "Legally Blonde" and I was disappointed. I found Andrew Lloyd Webber's "The Woman In White" to be the most boring score I've heard since "Aspects Of Love" (but I DO want to see the full musical.) "The Pirate Queen", judging from the CD, had such poor lyrics and I was expecting so much better. "Lestat", don't go there. Please. "Tarzan", no, no, no. "Camille Claudel" and "Waiting For The Moon" were excellent, from the music I've heard, and I wish they were in New York. I can't judge anything else since I haven't bothered to hear/or see it.

I've been following Baron's "Frankenstein" since the early Naughties. I wanted it to succeed, because it was a dark gothic musical that took years to get on. I've also been following Santoriello's "Tale Of 2 Cities" which could really turn things around, but I doubt it. I've spoken to people in the know, with over 20 years experience in the industry, and they weren't enthused with the new shows.

Germany seems to have taken off where the real excitement was taking place. Michael Kunze is a genius, way ahead of his time, and I will see anything that comes out of his mind. "Elisabeth", "Tanz Der Vampire", "Mozart", "Rebecca" are all thrilling and sensational, and I also loved his translation for "Der Glockner Von Notre-Dame" which was the best Disney show to date. It is also the best all-round theatrical score by Alan Menken, IMO.

London are starting to reflect Broadway in a way, but there's still sorts of exciting stuff going down there. Europe is where the real stuff is happening. Europe is where Steinman, Wildhorn and Webber's darker stuff will be the most successful. That's why Frank is having so much luck there, methinks. "Dracula" should never have been taken to Broadway until it had conquered the rest of Europe. Then again, an American creative team could have ruined it as much as they did on the Broadway show. Sigh...

But if Frank could launch "Waiting For The Moon" Off-Broadway, that would still even things out with, say, "Rudolf" in Vienna and "Cyrano" with the Takarazuka Revue etc.

Please, if you are tired of the American musical, purchase:

TANZ DER VAMPIRE-DER GESANTAUFNAHME (1998) The Double CD available on amazon.de, soundofmusic.de & footlight Records. The only 90s musical that beats this is "Jekyll & Hyde" and, maybe, "Sunset Boulevard". The musical is about to close in Berlin as well, check it out. DON'T get the Highlights CD, they're never worth it.

DER GLOCKNER VON NOTRE-DAME. The Cast Recording. This is absolutely sensational, Menken at his best.

MOZART & REBECCA, get those too.

Btw. is ELISABETH currently playing the United Stages of Vienna? That would make perfect sense if RUDOLF is about to move in.

I've been meaning to check out all the musicals you've mentioned. The language barrier has been the biggest hurdle for me and many others unfortunatley. I love international recordings of Frank's shows, but I already know the lyrics and what not for the most part. Tanz Der Vampire is pretty good-- I just never got into it too much.

As for current broadway, I don't have high expecations either. Light In The Piazza has some very gorgeous melodies, but the plot is stupid. Pirate Queen just didn't succeed to be nearly as epic as Les Miserables and Miss Saigon. However, there are a few good pieces in it. "Woman" is my favorite song in the score. Young Frankenstein has a few catchy pieces, but that's about it. Megan Mullally pretty much holds the show together. Little Mermaid suffers from horrible costumes, story changes, and additions to the score that aren't very original at all. Disney hasn't had much success with new shows in awhile.

The only german production of Elisabeth since the close of the Revival in 2006 is the Elisabeth Tour that opened in Berlin in April, and is going to Zurich next. There are no plans of re-staging Elisabeth in the near future. VBW announced RUDOLF will play in February after the closing of REBECCA in December. After RUDOLF no idea what's happening since there's no idea if the show will succed or not. But if it doesn't the most probable is closing RUDOLF and re-opening REBECCA. ;)

Well that's normaly the problem with most of the USA people I know that went to listen to the show. Since normaly none speak German its hard to get into.
I STRONGLY advise you to listen to REBECCA though. It's Kunze&Levay's best work and went it comes to the story its not hard to follow if you have ever read the book or watched Hitchcoks movie. :D There's also a site that may help you with many of these non-english shows http://www.theatre-musical.com/

Well, that's only part of the problem. If Frank's shows had stayed in North America and never ventured to Europe or Asia, very few people there would be interested in his works either. That's what's been happening with shows like Rebecca. Close to 400 Million people in the world identify English as their first language (as opposed to the 180 Million German speakers)-- I don't think asking for more comprehensive English demos/recordings of these shows is too much to ask. BUT, I will admit that we are spoiled when it comes to English theatre recordings. There are a lot more of them than any other language.

Also, there are quite a few Americans who speak German. It's offered as a second language in most schools around the country. Currently, we have a mass influx of hispanic citizens though. So, we are encouraged to take Spanish instead. Maybe if we had a more competant President who cared about his/her citizens more than global domination, we would be more encouraged to take multiple languages.

Well when it comes to REBECCA for example, there is an english demo. Same with ELISABETH. The only musical by Kunze & Levay that doesn't has an english demo is MOZART!.
REBECCA was actually planned to open on the West End, but then they decided to stage it in Vienna as usual. But now that I mention it, there's also the possibility of REBECCA going to Broadway. In this moment there are people on B'way that are studying a possible production of REBECCA there...am I fond of this idea? Well if its to repeat the Dance of the Vampires slaughter, then I don't, but if they want to do it like Vienna then you'll be able to see the show.
The other shows just don't get english productions for a very simple reason: they are not exactly the "thing" that feats B'way.
In B'way you have now stuff like Wicked and Legally Blonde and people seem to like that. ELISABETH for example would be a absolute flop on B'way because its definitly not the kind of show that could stand in B'way Theaters just like some Frank Show's didn't. ELISABETH has A LOT of political content on the songs, has too many cultural references in the lyrics and its staged in a way that only people with a decent amount of knowlegde in History would understand. That's why the show, although its the most sucessfull hit so far in german-language Musical Theater, hasn't even gone to many European countries. The show was just staged in Austria, Germany, Swizerland, Hungary, Finland, Sweden and Japan.

When it comes to Concept Recordings etc, well that's not a normal thing here in Europe. Most Theater producers as well as Composers/Lyricists don't publish concept nor demo recordings. They may publish Promo CDs like REBECCA's "Power of a woman in love" wich was recorded and published in english by Gloria Gaynor but even that was abnormal.

(And I'm going a bit too long in this text... :P )

Yeah, I'm aware of those demos. But that's why I added the "comprehensive" part in my last statement. The demos that are available for those shows are typically just a few songs and very bad translations.

A London production of any of them would be nice. Broadway is no longer a place for "serious" works-- as you alluded to. Orchestras have also been reduced to a few keyboards in many cases. I'm a big fan of Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk theory in which every aspect of Theatre acts together to create something really great.

Well the ELISABETH songs are decent if you have in mind that the songs in german are very very hard to translate to english without either losing their essence or making sence. The best adaptation of a Elisabeth song is "Kitch" in the CD "Shades of Night: Musical goes Rock" ;)
the REBECCA demo has some close lyrics to the Vienna version. the tittle song "Rebecca" that is on the demo corresponds to the 1st act version of "Rebecca", but the song appears another 3 times. "I'll never forget her smile" is almost identical of to the german version, and "Ship on the reef" too.
Of course the lyrics could be improved, but Kunze isn't a english-native speaker, so perhaps a GOOD english lyricist could get the lyrics fixed. And I hope someone does that... :P
Beware though that DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES english lyrics aren't the lyrics of the show, they are just Jim's lyrics...the german versions are quite different though "Original Sin" has a similar idea in the german version.

No, actually, the lyrics you hear in Jim Steinman's version are based on the original English lyrics. Michael Kunze showed me a draft from July 1997 which was written in English. Many of these reflected earlier versions of the lyrics that you hear on the demos and, subsequently, the Broadway production. Steinman either had a hand in them, which he did, or revised Kunze's lyrics. Steinman wrote all of "Vampires in Love", "Carpe Noctem" and "Confession Of A Vampire". If the original show was produced in English, originally, Steinman would have received an additional lyrics credit. The German translation is ALL Kunze.

EDIT: "Carpe Noctem" was originally going to be on the soundtrack for "Batman Forever" in 1995. It was written 2 years before "Vampires" came into being. Steinman previously used the riff on "Back Into Hell" with Meat Loaf. "Seize The Night" was dropped from the soundtrack and resurrected in "Vampires" (Hence the reference to "In the shadows of the city..." changed to "In the shadows of the castle..." etc.)

What I meant to say was, that the english lyrics of DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES were Jim's lyrics. Many of the songs were already featured in Jim's Albums long before the creation of TANZ. The German lyrics Kunze wrote were new lyrics to old tunes ;) "The natives are restless tonight" was turned into "Gott ist tot" and "Einladung zum Ball", just like "Total Eclipse of the Heart" became "Totale Finsternis".
Of course Kunze wrote the german lyrics/libretto, and TANZ DER VAMPIRE is a show by him with music by Jim Steinman. Of the production had opened originaly in english, with "Jim's lyrics", the show would have certainly floped, since the english version doesn't have a half of the quality of the german version. :rolleyes:

The English lyrics you're talking about existed before the German production. "Dance of the Vampires" was written in English because Jim Steinman couldn't speak German. When Steinman completed the music, the show was translated into German (the opposite process of what many people believe.) Also, many of the lyrics in the original English script reflect Michael Kunze's German concept except i.e. "God is dead" became "God Has Left The Building" and "Original Sin" etc. Other than that, there's not a lot of difference and I think Kunze was very true to what they originally had in English.

Well I obviously don't have access to the english concept libretto, but when compared the german libretto to the only english libretto that was staged (the Broadway one) its very hard to find similar things. Apart from a couple of songs that are similar all the rest is quite diferent. So if the version that opened on Broadway was the original English concept libretto, THANK GOD Kunze rewrote it in german. :D

That's not surprising. Shows like J & H were massacred into broadway productions as well.

No, the original English libretto IS the German show EXCEPT in English.

I forgot how gorgoeus the score for this is. I really didn't care for the Disney film when I was younger, but I'm listening to the soundtrack now and am very impressed with Menken's work. "The Bells of Notre Dame" is especially fantastic. Clopin (Paul Kandel) sounds A LOT like Douglas Sills (IMO) also.

The film is NOTHING compared to the German recording. Your mouth will drop to the floor when you hear it.

Well then I would really like to know why on earth did they changed completly the script in the Broadway production... :angry:

On a random note, I listened through the English recording of Rebecca. Kunze has created some OK moments, but it didn't do a ton for me. I'll try to listen through the Vienna Cast CD or something though. The best piece was "Rebecca" in my opinion.

Yes the english demo of Rebecca isn't that great. The show was still on a very early stage. I honestly recomend you the 2CD Vienna Cast. Because although the Highlights CD is nice, some of the best pieces aren't there. :rolleyes:

I'm a huge Tanz fan -- a friend sent me the original Vienna 2-disc for my birthday last year, and ever since, I've been hooked. I also got to hear some of the other versions, including the "in concert" one and the Polish and Japanese recordings . . . Steve Barton is by far my favourite Krolock, but I rather like the Polish one as well. I saw a few clips of the Broadway version, and . . . well, frankly, I found it awful. But it hasn't lessened my love for the German version at all. :D

I'm really interested in discovering some of Michael Kunze's other shows . . . Which would you recommend I try first, now that I've gotten my feet wet with Tanz? I've never studied German, but enjoy listening to it anyway; I think it's a gorgeous language, and I've even learned a few words and phrases thanks to all the German-language musical recordings I've listened to (especially J&H, Pimpernel, and Dracula)!

I also really want to get a recording of Der Glöckner von Notre Dame. I loved the film, and am really liking the plot changes I've read about for the stage version. Who was in the original cast, and are there multiple cast recordings available?

As for Kunze's work it will depend on your amount of knowlegde when it comes to History. If you dominate well European History, specially the Austrian History, Elisabeth or Mozart! won't be bad to give a listen to. If you understand Japanese and have lots of pacience there's also "Marie Antoinette" wich will just open in german next year in Bremen.

Anyway I would recommend you "Rebecca" since its their best work and if you're familiar with Daphne du Maurie's classic or the Hitchcok film it will be easier to enter too. ;)

About Mozart! the show is their less sucessful and therefore there's just a Highlights CD available. The music is nice, but the story was way too weird and tried to tell to many things at once, ending up by not saying nothing.

As for Glockner, you'll need luck to find the CD because its out of print. I don't know why because its by far Disney's best Stage adaptation. When it comes to the cast, you have Drew Sarich as Hunchback, and that says pretty much everything B)

The ONLY Tanz recording worth having, if you're not a completist, is the album from 1998 w/ Steve Barton and the original cast. Everything else was, I thought, a shadow. This is also because composer Jim Steinman didn't produce the other albums. The English demos are the most satisfying experience for non-German speaking audiences. IGNORE ANYTHING from the Broadway production (I'm warning you for your sake.)

Yes, Der Glockner is out of print :( I've seen copies that are very expensive though. I wouldn't encourage you to pay that much but if you choose to, it's worth it. It's the best Disney musical I've ever heard and I hope the rumours are true about a future Disney Broadway production.

Many thanks, Fantasma! I think I'll try Rebecca and Marie Antoinette first. And yeah, I admit I'm a bit of a completist when it comes to Tanz. :lol: I found things to like about all the casts I've heard, but agree that Steve Barton is the ultimate Count Von Krolock. And no other Abronsius can touch Gernot Kranner, either. ^_^

Aww, that's too bad that Glöckner is out of print. But I've seen some vids from the stage production on YouTube. I loved Drew Sarich in some roles (Dracula and Judas) but not in others (the parts he played in Lestat and Les Misérables) -- perhaps it's more due to the directors of the productions rather than him. However, I think his Quasimodo is outstanding! Also really liking Chris Murray as Clopin. And I second the hope that the show will be done on Broadway sometime soon... If they can't get Drew again, I'd love for them to cast Hugh Panaro or Gary Mauer as Quasimodo. B)